(Extra)ordinary sayings about sound #9

by lawrence

‘Those who make a living by making sound don’t have time (and don’t bother) to listen - this has always been the case. As we all know, (classical music) performers don’t listen to music, composers don’t listen to music, and conservatory students have the deafest ears in the world. That’s why jazz players are often found praising their colleagues: great ears on that guy, he keeps listening to other band members’ sounds and chords even when he’s doing his own solo.’ - Dajuin Yao, blog post. (Translated by Lawrence Li.)




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  1. This is nonsense. Please note that is not a rebuttal. It is unnecessary to rebut nonsense.

    Having one’s ears trained is a problem. Having them untrained is also a problem. There is no such thing as the ‘absolute listening’ espoused by Francisco Lopez. This is also a problem.

    Listening is a problem.

    Comment by du yisa — January 24, 2007 #

  2. How is listening a problem? Its VERY important for music makers to be able to listen well, especially in an improvisational setting– otherwise, the element of conversation is lost! And I don’t think Lopez is full of shit either; there’s certainly something to the concept that “absolute listening” is a much different experience than being able to see/understand the source of the sound. Without this mental clutter, you get a truly different experience. If you want to hear it AGAIN with the lights on (or whatever) I guess that’s alright too– why not have it both ways?

    AND… GNO: FANTASTIC SITE AS ALWAYS! I’m looking forward to the translated podcast transcriptions!

    Comment by DaveX — January 25, 2007 #

  3. Dear DaveX

    I don’t know what ‘music makers’ are, I don’t know what it means to ‘listen well’, and I wasn’t aware that it’s necessary for improvisors to have a ‘conversation’ (although I appreciate it when there is one). However, I do know Mr Lopez, and he is certainly not ‘full of shit’.

    The problem with listening is as follows:

    All listening is conditional. What you hear is different from what I hear, is different from what a bat, an elephant, or a tuna hears. In fact, what you hear is different from what you remember yourself to hear, just as it is different from what you expect yourself to hear. Beyond what you are able to consciously recognize, even the physiology of your middle ear canal and the hair cells in your cochlea are biased, and the way these stimuli are processed as they become a perception is extremely biased.

    You hear music. You hear what you like, what you don’t like. So what? You have a certain bias (due to physiology, cultural background, training, lack of training, etc.) and a sheng player from Anhui has another. Where is the music? It’s insufficient simply to say it’s in your head, or that it’s subjective. After all, we are not ideas but organisms, part of our environment.

    So, to recap: I agree with you. There is certainly something to the *concept* of ‘absolute listening’. However, listening itself is inherently provisional, just as we are. Do you see the problem?

    Your question ‘why not have it both ways?’ is well taken. How many ways do you want to have it? This is not the same as asking how many ways you can have it. It’s asking about you: why only those ways, or certain ways in particular? This is one way for us to recognize what we are, and what we are doing.

    That’s the problem, more or less.

    Of course GNO is fantastic. Lawrence is God. :-P

    Cheers

    Comment by du yisa — January 25, 2007 #

  4. i think we are getting too far away from what yao means…i am not saying that what you guys discussing here is invalid…in fact, they are very important and interesting topics…i think what yao means here is very simple…not anything philosophical or theoritcal here…once you started making music yourself, you spend less and less time in listening music…and listening to others is a habit…and you become less aware of the sounds of others, because you concentrate more and more on your own sound…i also notice this when i started making music myself…having problem of not having adequate time to listen to music…spending most of the time making and listening to my own sounds….

    Comment by sin:ned — January 25, 2007 #

  5. Dear sin:ned

    Thank you for your comment. However, I must disagree with you. It seems that your comment “gets too far away from what Yao means”. Yao made specific claims concerning the listening practices of professional musicians, classical musicians and conservatory students. I take it you are none of the above.

    Please refer to comment #1.

    Cheers

    Comment by du yisa — January 26, 2007 #

  6. hi du yisa,

    “Yao made specific claims concerning the listening practices of professional musicians, classical musicians and conservatory students”…agree on this…

    when i said “far away”, i didn’t mean on this level…

    and yes, of course, i belong to none of the mentioned groups…but i think the process is quite similar among all those who are involved in making sounds(the differences, i think, are just various degree on the same continuum)…

    cheers.

    Comment by sin:ned — January 26, 2007 #

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